(13-Feb-2015, 22:37)brit Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Ian,
Very happy to hear that you may have identified a possible cause for your white noise issue. Interesting to see whether others, who suffer this problem, also have mains re-generators of any description.
Fingers crossed for a permanent solution to a very long running saga, which seems to be confusing Devialets own engineers.
David
Thank you David
I should have said that the adverse contribution from the PPP could also be as a result of its known transient current limiting characteristic too
I really really really hate the white noise on AIR. Really really. One thing I've noticed recently though is if I shift the computer's position a bit this often tames it for a while. Still hate it. So much.
(13-Feb-2015, 22:20)IanG-UK Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I have some interesting news on the white noise which has plagued me for months.
I run an Apple single source system ( = a nil source system for most of the last few months since I barely use it now knowing I will get perpetual heavy white noise after as little as 15 minutes) and it is essentially what Devialet use themselves and all line of sight. It could not be more compliant. And I can use either AIR wifi or AIR ethernet.
I've always used a couple of PS Audio PPPs as mains regenerators, positioned behind a dividing wall but in reality very close to my 800s.
Anyway, for reasons I won't bore you with, I've started using the kit without the PPPs.
Having tested this continuously over three days, I can report that the white noise is reduced by 80% - 90%. And once it starts (generally only on hi-res tracks) I can flip over to a 16/44.1 track and this generally clears the noise and within seconds I can return to 24/88.2 stuff on a noise free basis.
Whist the end result remains unacceptable, it is quite clearly substantially improved.
My technical knowledge here is minimal, but I venture to suggest that the "contribution" of the PPP comes from either significant SMPSs or high levels of RFI.
Indeed, when I reported this to Devialet they signalled that this would prove very useful information to their engineers which, on the one hand, is encouraging as it may speed up the delivery of a permanent solution but, on the other hand, is worrying in that this path had presumably not been explored by Devialet themselves. After all, without a PPP, Devialet can recreate this fault in their own offices.
Further testing and report later ...
An update.
The large reduction in white noise seemingly brought about by removing the PPPs lasted for 6 days or so, then full white noise reappeared.
So what conclusion can be drawn?
Well, my Devialets had been turned off entirely before the PPP removal (off, not sleeping) for a few days before I used them. So maybe the white noise is exacerbated by the circuitry being live (whether on or sleeping) for a prolonged period?
Once the noise returned, I thought I would switch my Master and Companion (I have two 250s so both have the full circuitry) and see if the white noise was present. Purely on AIR wifi, with no other inputs.
Result: No white noise straight away; no whiite noise even after leaving the music playing quietly overnight; but after 10 hours of so, white noise reappeared.
If this is indicative, rather than random, it points to white noise only being present in its most significant form after the Devialet has been powered for a long period (on or sleeping) and after the AIR circuitry has been driven (or drivable) for a long period too.
Anyone else able to come to similar conclusions?
I fed back to Devialet Support but the Support area does not give feedback as that is in the engineers' hands and it appears that Devialet policy there is to say nothing until a definite solution is delivered, which is frustrating. I feel like an unrewarded consultant for them.
Ian, I admire your incredible patience in trying to help Devialet sort this out. If you don't get one from Devialet, than at least one from me:
Thank you!!
I meant to post this earlier. I got this info from a Devialet retailer who had got it from a customer (who may or may not be on this forum so sorry if it looks like I'm nicking a workaround!). I also haven't tried this so can't vouch for its effectiveness.
If using iTunes on Windows, install Apple Quicktime on the Windows box and in QuickTime set:
QuickTime > Edit > Preferences > QuickTime Preferences > Audio tab > Enable Windows Audio Session.
In the AIR tray app set 'Enable WASAPI Bit Perfect'
The instructions also say set bit rate/sampling to 24/192 and set buffer to 100ms (which I think is the default).
What this appears to do is enable iTunes on Windows to use WASAPI and therefore their 'Bit Perfect' implementation. For some reason this could work around the white noise issue. My feeling is it might change the issue from white noise to dropouts (which is what I get with AIR/JRiver/Bit Perfect on Windows) but then dropouts are more pleasant than white noise!
(20-Feb-2015, 19:11)Rufus McDufus Wrote: [ -> ]I meant to post this earlier. I got this info from a Devialet retailer who had got it from a customer (who may or may not be on this forum so sorry if it looks like I'm nicking a workaround!). I also haven't tried this so can't vouch for its effectiveness.
If using iTunes on Windows, install Apple Quicktime on the Windows box and in QuickTime set:
QuickTime > Edit > Preferences > QuickTime Preferences > Audio tab > Enable Windows Audio Session.
In the AIR tray app set 'Enable WASAPI Bit Perfect'
The instructions also say set bit rate/sampling to 24/192 and set buffer to 100ms (which I think is the default).
What this appears to do is enable iTunes on Windows to use WASAPI and therefore their 'Bit Perfect' implementation. For some reason this could work around the white noise issue. My feeling is it might change the issue from white noise to dropouts (which is what I get with AIR/JRiver/Bit Perfect on Windows) but then dropouts are more pleasant than white noise!
Thanks' for this Rufus. I use Windows / JRiver WASAPI AIR Ethernet for best sound quality, but actually use iTunes a lot for reasons I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum. Use of iTunes in my system does give rise to a small loss in sound quality. I have blind tested this with friends with 100% strike rate. I wonder how this "iTunes WASAPI" will sound? Anyway, if I get time at the weekend, I'll give this a try. I am not sure if this will help the white noise issue though, I can get white noise with JRiver WASAPI, so I am not sure why iTunes / Quicktime WASAPI should fair better. I will certainly give it a go though, nothing ventured and all that!
(20-Feb-2015, 23:03)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (20-Feb-2015, 19:11)Rufus McDufus Wrote: [ -> ]I meant to post this earlier. I got this info from a Devialet retailer who had got it from a customer (who may or may not be on this forum so sorry if it looks like I'm nicking a workaround!). I also haven't tried this so can't vouch for its effectiveness.
If using iTunes on Windows, install Apple Quicktime on the Windows box and in QuickTime set:
QuickTime > Edit > Preferences > QuickTime Preferences > Audio tab > Enable Windows Audio Session.
In the AIR tray app set 'Enable WASAPI Bit Perfect'
The instructions also say set bit rate/sampling to 24/192 and set buffer to 100ms (which I think is the default).
What this appears to do is enable iTunes on Windows to use WASAPI and therefore their 'Bit Perfect' implementation. For some reason this could work around the white noise issue. My feeling is it might change the issue from white noise to dropouts (which is what I get with AIR/JRiver/Bit Perfect on Windows) but then dropouts are more pleasant than white noise!
Thanks' for this Rufus. I use Windows / JRiver WASAPI AIR Ethernet for best sound quality, but actually use iTunes a lot for reasons I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum. Use of iTunes in my system does give rise to a small loss in sound quality. I have blind tested this with friends with 100% strike rate. I wonder how this "iTunes WASAPI" will sound? Anyway, if I get time at the weekend, I'll give this a try. I am not sure if this will help the white noise issue though, I can get white noise with JRiver WASAPI, so I am not sure why iTunes / Quicktime WASAPI should fair better. I will certainly give it a go though, nothing ventured and all that!
Hi Rufus (& Confused)
I can not tell a lie, it twas I who had this (maybe partial fix).
I had reason to use AIR, via Ethernet, using iTunes installed on my home PC, whilst my Wyred4Sound Music Server was being upgraded to SSD memory (very worthwhile upgrade). I was plagued with White Noise after about 1hr of playing. Trawled the web for any other solutions, having read through this forum, and seen all the problems (but no real solutions!) being faced with AIR by other Devialet users, and came across this Apple Quick Time setting (can not honestly remember which site I found it on!). Anyway it solved the White Noise, but as Rufus states, it did not cure the occasional drop out, which, depending on use of the home PC by my wife, were either non-existent or, if Printer being used, fairly dramatic! My feeling is that, if using a PC connected to the Web, it will be almost impossible to stop the occasional drop, out, or stutter, there are so many "interrupts" through the system that will cause interference. For eg anti-virus checkers and routine software updates - I am sure that most of us have set up automatic updates for most of our Software packages, I know that I have!
Anyway I am now back to using my W4S Server via USB and happy NOT to be using AIR!
David
Ah thanks David! I had a funny feeling the source of the workaround might be a forum regular!
(21-Feb-2015, 12:09)Rufus McDufus Wrote: [ -> ]Ah thanks David! I had a funny feeling the source of the workaround might be a forum regular!
Hi Rufus,
Thanks for Posting it anyway - I, in the interest of being a good Forum member, should have posted it myself for others to try, mea culpa
!
David
I wonder if this work-around
"If using iTunes on Windows, install Apple Quicktime on the Windows box and in QuickTime set:
QuickTime > Edit > Preferences > QuickTime Preferences > Audio tab > Enable Windows Audio Session."
is even applicable for those who use JRiver (or Foobar) WASAPI.
Regarding the drop-outs and stutters, a lot can be done to eliminate them. For instance, JRiver (as well as Foobar) has buffering and pre-buffering (which can be customized). Devialet itself has a buffer (which can be managed via AIR). Finally, anti-virus does interfere with playback. I had to disable Windows Defender auto-scans, but depending on your anti-virus program, there may be ways to configure it, to exclude JRiver/Foobar specific folders from the scans.