Devialet Chat

(30-May-2016, 13:16)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]

(30-May-2016, 12:16)hk6230 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have the same luck in AIR3.0b as my Win8.1/AIR2.1.3 experience. I have even done a clean install of El Capitan and AIR3.0b still stutters. Maybe my old Mac Mini (late 2009 model) is not good enough.

Hint: It's not the Mac - it's hugely over specced for the task of audio streaming.  

Yes, I believe the specs on the old Mac Mini should be sufficient, considering my Ultrabook has lesser memory and lower CPU speed, too. It could be the wifi component which is deteriorating. I just plugged in a Cat6+ cable to my Mac Mini and it is streaming 24/192 AIR-wifi to Le200. Let's see how it lasts.

Hi DevHeads 

New member here. Have enjoyed the site on and off for a while now and have received a lot of useful info and tips eg Roon. About time I joined instead of snooping! 

Obviously the whole Air saga has been a real and emotional issue for many. As one of the first UK D-Premier owners (s/n 011) I had given up on Air due to dropout and crash issues. However, sometime later a change of router showed it was a network issue.

Air3 is brilliant and has got me using Roon for the first time from bog standard MacMini- outstanding combo. Sonics as good if not slightly better than my Krell Connect streamer and a whole lot less clunky to use. I felt that the Krell had the sonic edge over Air2 and so I believe that Air3 is a real advance.
Regards
K

Some thoughts on implementing Devialet AIR:

My relationship with AIR has been tumultuous; since I got my D900 end of January, I have been trying to implement without success; I benefited from the help of a fervent supporter of AIR in the person of Jalucine on the French forum but until this week nothing worked. I could not.

My specifications was: get to organize the playing tracks from an iPad and integrate digitized files on my Mac Mini and those streamed from Qobuz. So I was reluctant to use iTunes and also JRiver which are unfamiliar with Qobuz.

I clung to Audirvana as the only possible way to solve my problem. At the same time, before the v3.0 beta, Audirvana and AIR did not manage to play from one song to another with a different sampling rate. It was so complicated and it needed to use the upsampling in Audirvana to be working.

Fast forward to my recent fight with technical support from Devialet which advised me earlier this week to return to USB and Audirvana; I was on the verge of returning my machine

I observed that the configuration that allowed to operate my Amethyst, namely JRiver on MacMini with BubbleUPnP to integrate Qobuz, also worked with AIR, provided:
- AIR on Mac is started
- JRiver is set to work with AIR (see copying config screen); you will notice that the mode 'Integer' is supported


[img][/img]
- MacMini is selected as Media Renderer instead of Amethyst in the BubbleUPnP Server config

Once you do that, and publish JRvier library as a Media Server, you have access to your library on the Mac and Qobuz or Tidal from the Lumin app on iPad . It's cool

Remains to understand what are the limitations of AIR.
AIR v3.0 in Beta suffers from two major flaws:
- It causes very unpleasant cracklings when the network adapter can not send frames fast enough to the Devialet
- It causes whites of several seconds (drop-outs) when the driver is overwhelmed.

It is therefore essential to prohibit, whatever the reason and except if you have a pretty powerful machine, like a MacBook Pro with Quad processor, the dynamic changing of the sampling rate of the audio files (up-sampling or down -sampling); In the same spirit, I think Room Correction plugins  are currently unwelcome. In any case, for small machines as my MacMini with dual-core i5, even at 2.8 GHz, it is absolutely prohibited.

Then it is useful if you have a dedicated machine for audio, unless it is very powerful, to use Mac OSX optimization scripts from Computer Audio Design: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/ osx-a ... imization /.

Then, you should minimize the network traffic, and work with audio files on the Mac disk or connected to the Mac via USB or Thunderbolt and refrain from using a NAS.

You should know that AIR WiFi is deemed to sound better that AIR Ethernet, but is much less robust and requires above all a more powerful machine to stream from. This is even more true if you are trying to stream high-res audio files. I cannot, for instance, reliably stream high-res (24/192 or DSD 64) from the AIR MacMini through WiFi. This bugs very quickly. But, as I write this contribution, I am listening to a stream in 24/192 from my MacBook Pro and it works pretty well. For the moment

Everything is common sense. And I missed common sense, but the Devialet support did nothing to put me on the track ... and that is my biggest complaint. While the Trinnov support is operational and knows its machines very well, the Devialet support is friendly but does not invest in supporting clients. So I was left there alone fighting to advance against the technical support if I may say so.

Here, Devialet AIR has been working for me for a few  hours ...

To summarize:
- Prioritize Ethernet over WiFi when possible and if you stream high-resolution files
- Avoid downloading simultaneously to using AIR; or do expect cracklings
- Do not change the sampling rate dynamically within the software player
- JRiver works well with AIR Devialet in Integer mode, Audirvana does not yet
- JRiver and Audirvana offer integration with Qobuz / Tidal
- at home, Audirvana causes drop-outs with MacMini, this is not the case with JRiver
- both work well on the MacBook Pro Quad proc.
- I think it is better to choose a streaming machine with i7 processors; my interpretation of perpetual lags (drop-outs) to my Mac Mini with Audirvana and Devialet AIR is that Audirvana is not working in integer mode and therefore requires converting floats to integer, task that the i5 processor is not equipped to process effectively. But this is only an assumption on my part ...

And when it works, it's magic. The sound of the Devialet is optimal.

(03-Jun-2016, 08:19)SwissBear Wrote: [ -> ]Some thoughts on implementing Devialet AIR:

My relationship with AIR has been tumultuous; since I got my D900 end of January, I have been trying to implement without success; I benefited from the help of a fervent supporter of AIR in the person of Jalucine on the French forum but until this week nothing worked. I could not.

My specifications was: get to organize the playing tracks from an iPad and integrate digitized files on my Mac Mini and those streamed from Qobuz. So I was reluctant to use iTunes and also JRiver which are unfamiliar with Qobuz.

I clung to Audirvana as the only possible way to solve my problem. At the same time, before the v3.0 beta, Audirvana and AIR did not manage to play from one song to another with a different sampling rate. It was so complicated and it needed to use the upsampling in Audirvana to be working.

Fast forward to my recent fight with technical support from Devialet which advised me earlier this week to return to USB and Audirvana; I was on the verge of returning my machine

I observed that the configuration that allowed to operate my Amethyst, namely JRiver on MacMini with BubbleUPnP to integrate Qobuz, also worked with AIR, provided:
- AIR on Mac is started
- JRiver is set to work with AIR (see copying config screen); you will notice that the mode 'Integer' is supported


[img][/img]
- MacMini is selected as Media Renderer instead of Amethyst in the BubbleUPnP Server config

Once you do that, and publish JRvier library as a Media Server, you have access to your library on the Mac and Qobuz or Tidal from the Lumin app on iPad . It's cool

Remains to understand what are the limitations of AIR.
AIR v3.0 in Beta suffers from two major flaws:
- It causes very unpleasant cracklings when the network adapter can not send frames fast enough to the Devialet
- It causes whites of several seconds (drop-outs) when the driver is overwhelmed.

It is therefore essential to prohibit, whatever the reason and except if you have a pretty powerful machine, like a MacBook Pro with Quad processor, the dynamic changing of the sampling rate of the audio files (up-sampling or down -sampling); In the same spirit, I think Room Correction plugins  are currently unwelcome. In any case, for small machines as my MacMini with dual-core i5, even at 2.8 GHz, it is absolutely prohibited.

Then it is useful if you have a dedicated machine for audio, unless it is very powerful, to use Mac OSX optimization scripts from Computer Audio Design: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/ osx-a ... imization /.

Then, you should minimize the network traffic, and work with audio files on the Mac disk or connected to the Mac via USB or Thunderbolt and refrain from using a NAS.

You should know that AIR WiFi is deemed to sound better that AIR Ethernet, but is much less robust and requires above all a more powerful machine to stream from. This is even more true if you are trying to stream high-res audio files. I cannot, for instance, reliably stream high-res (24/192 or DSD 64) from the AIR MacMini through WiFi. This bugs very quickly. But, as I write this contribution, I am listening to a stream in 24/192 from my MacBook Pro and it works pretty well. For the moment

Everything is common sense. And I missed common sense, but the Devialet support did nothing to put me on the track ... and that is my biggest complaint. While the Trinnov support is operational and knows its machines very well, the Devialet support is friendly but does not invest in supporting clients. So I was left there alone fighting to advance against the technical support if I may say so.

Here, Devialet AIR has been working for me for a few  hours ...

To summarize:
- Prioritize Ethernet over WiFi when possible and if you stream high-resolution files
- Avoid downloading simultaneously to using AIR; or do expect cracklings
- Do not change the sampling rate dynamically within the software player
- JRiver works well with AIR Devialet in Integer mode, Audirvana does not yet
- JRiver and Audirvana offer integration with Qobuz / Tidal
- at home, Audirvana causes drop-outs with MacMini, this is not the case with JRiver
- both work well on the MacBook Pro Quad proc.
- I think it is better to choose a streaming machine with i7 processors; my interpretation of perpetual lags (drop-outs) to my Mac Mini with Audirvana and Devialet AIR is that Audirvana is not working in integer mode and therefore requires converting floats to integer, task that the i5 processor is not equipped to process effectively. But this is only an assumption on my part ...

And when it works, it's magic. The sound of the Devialet is optimal.

Hi SB,

Very comprehensive and useful - thanks.
 
I've tried Audirvana, JRiver and Amarra with all three versions of Air (on MacBook and Mini). Also ran them USB. In the end I always went back to iTunes as (a) it was stable, (b) far less clunky to use and © I preferred the slightly more rounded sound of iTunes. With regards © I never really got on with Audirvana as I found it a bit sterile/clinical. I liked an earlier version of Amarra but then they changed it and it started to sound like Audirvana! Loved the JPlayer interface but still preferred sound of iTunes. Now that I'm using Roon I'm very happy with the sound and the Air stability. The Roon user experience is second to none IMO.

So I guess my problems were nothing like yours or other DevHeads, and could be identified as a network issue rather than Air or its integration with 3rd party software.
On that point I do sympathise with Devialet somewhat - as I understand it Air was developed to work with with iTunes - as a scientist the bane of my life is getting two different pieces of equipment or software to talk to each other, resulting in an inevitable Heath Robinson fix. Also the biggest variable in all of this must be the local network i.e. how many of us have exactly the same networks - routers, cables, wifi strength, switches, providers etc etc ????

Regards

K

(02-Jun-2016, 21:43)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]Hi DevHeads 

New member here. Have enjoyed the site on and off for a while now and have received a lot of useful info and tips eg Roon.  About time I joined instead of snooping! 

Obviously the whole Air saga has been a real and emotional issue for many. As one of the first UK D-Premier owners (s/n 011) I had given up on Air due to dropout and crash issues. However, sometime later a change of router showed it was a network issue.

Air3 is brilliant and has got me using Roon for the first time from bog standard MacMini- outstanding combo. Sonics as good if not slightly better than my Krell Connect streamer and a whole lot less clunky to use. I felt that the Krell had the sonic edge over Air2 and so I believe that Air3 is a real advance.
Regards
K

Hello K! Welcome aboard, nice looking system you have put together. Happy to hear another user has been able to onboard successfully with AIR3 and Roon as well.

(03-Jun-2016, 08:19)SwissBear Wrote: [ -> ]Some thoughts on implementing Devialet AIR:

My relationship with AIR has been tumultuous; since I got my D900 end of January, I have been trying to implement without success; I benefited from the help of a fervent supporter of AIR in the person of Jalucine on the French forum but until this week nothing worked. I could not.

My specifications was: get to organize the playing tracks from an iPad and integrate digitized files on my Mac Mini and those streamed from Qobuz. So I was reluctant to use iTunes and also JRiver which are unfamiliar with Qobuz.

I clung to Audirvana as the only possible way to solve my problem. At the same time, before the v3.0 beta, Audirvana and AIR did not manage to play from one song to another with a different sampling rate. It was so complicated and it needed to use the upsampling in Audirvana to be working.

Fast forward to my recent fight with technical support from Devialet which advised me earlier this week to return to USB and Audirvana; I was on the verge of returning my machine

I observed that the configuration that allowed to operate my Amethyst, namely JRiver on MacMini with BubbleUPnP to integrate Qobuz, also worked with AIR, provided:
- AIR on Mac is started
- JRiver is set to work with AIR (see copying config screen); you will notice that the mode 'Integer' is supported


[img][/img]
- MacMini is selected as Media Renderer instead of Amethyst in the BubbleUPnP Server config

Once you do that, and publish JRvier library as a Media Server, you have access to your library on the Mac and Qobuz or Tidal from the Lumin app on iPad . It's cool

Remains to understand what are the limitations of AIR.
AIR v3.0 in Beta suffers from two major flaws:
- It causes very unpleasant cracklings when the network adapter can not send frames fast enough to the Devialet
- It causes whites of several seconds (drop-outs) when the driver is overwhelmed.

It is therefore essential to prohibit, whatever the reason and except if you have a pretty powerful machine, like a MacBook Pro with Quad processor, the dynamic changing of the sampling rate of the audio files (up-sampling or down -sampling); In the same spirit, I think Room Correction plugins  are currently unwelcome. In any case, for small machines as my MacMini with dual-core i5, even at 2.8 GHz, it is absolutely prohibited.

Then it is useful if you have a dedicated machine for audio, unless it is very powerful, to use Mac OSX optimization scripts from Computer Audio Design: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/ osx-a ... imization /.

Then, you should minimize the network traffic, and work with audio files on the Mac disk or connected to the Mac via USB or Thunderbolt and refrain from using a NAS.

You should know that AIR WiFi is deemed to sound better that AIR Ethernet, but is much less robust and requires above all a more powerful machine to stream from. This is even more true if you are trying to stream high-res audio files. I cannot, for instance, reliably stream high-res (24/192 or DSD 64) from the AIR MacMini through WiFi. This bugs very quickly. But, as I write this contribution, I am listening to a stream in 24/192 from my MacBook Pro and it works pretty well. For the moment

Everything is common sense. And I missed common sense, but the Devialet support did nothing to put me on the track ... and that is my biggest complaint. While the Trinnov support is operational and knows its machines very well, the Devialet support is friendly but does not invest in supporting clients. So I was left there alone fighting to advance against the technical support if I may say so.

Here, Devialet AIR has been working for me for a few  hours ...

To summarize:
- Prioritize Ethernet over WiFi when possible and if you stream high-resolution files
- Avoid downloading simultaneously to using AIR; or do expect cracklings
- Do not change the sampling rate dynamically within the software player
- JRiver works well with AIR Devialet in Integer mode, Audirvana does not yet
- JRiver and Audirvana offer integration with Qobuz / Tidal
- at home, Audirvana causes drop-outs with MacMini, this is not the case with JRiver
- both work well on the MacBook Pro Quad proc.
- I think it is better to choose a streaming machine with i7 processors; my interpretation of perpetual lags (drop-outs) to my Mac Mini with Audirvana and Devialet AIR is that Audirvana is not working in integer mode and therefore requires converting floats to integer, task that the i5 processor is not equipped to process effectively. But this is only an assumption on my part ...

And when it works, it's magic. The sound of the Devialet is optimal.

I'm using Air 3 on a 2012 Mac Mini (SSD with 16GB RAM) with Audirvana 2.
Integer mode works but direct mode does not.
I do not upsample.

Audirvana last version  and Air 3 beta works with direct modus

(03-Jun-2016, 15:50)Devi200 Wrote: [ -> ]Audirvana last version  and Air 3 beta works with direct modus

Just downloaded. Version 2.5.2 if I'm correct.
You're right it does support direct mode, but unfortunately does not help with high-res file streaming on an i5 MacMini and WiFi.

(03-Jun-2016, 15:50)Devi200 Wrote: [ -> ]Audirvana last version  and Air 3 beta works with direct modus

(03-Jun-2016, 16:12)SwissBear Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-Jun-2016, 15:50)Devi200 Wrote: [ -> ]Audirvana last version  and Air 3 beta works with direct modus

Just downloaded. Version 2.5.2 if I'm correct.
You're right it does support direct mode, but unfortunately does not help with high-res file streaming on an i5 MacMini and WiFi.

OK, I need to update - I think Damian did an update a couple of weeks ago to fix this.

I've installed the AIR3 Beta on my Mac Mini using Roon (Ethernet to the D200). In Roon I've tried multiple settings (integer mode, exclusive mode). The Mac Mini is remotely controlled from a MacBook Pro. The music plays during 1'50'' (from Tidal account) and then suddenly stops and I loose the connection to the Mini. It's like AIR3 screwed something at network level.