(29-Jul-2016, 10:53)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ] (28-Jul-2016, 07:37)AllenB Wrote: [ -> ]So now I have a bit of a quandary
I thought I would give the RC Beta 3 on Mac a go, after all, when I bought my Dev 200 I had wanted to use AiR and keep it all simple. As we know, thus far AiR has been a nightmare for most, but hey ho, I gave it a go.
Firstly, with a straight Ethernet connection, it worked through a few tracks and I thought this pretty good, but not up to the SQ of my recent microRendu setup. What the heck I thought, I will switch the network feed that my MR was receiving, which is a pair of TP Link 110 optic fibre isolators, with the unit nearest the MR receiving power from one of the rails of my JS-2. Wow, this elevated the SQ in AiR3 to a level I had not heard before from AiR.
I thought I would stress this a little, so my iMac, which stores my music, runs Roon server and HQP, with a selection of various format tracks all up sampled by HQP to 192kHz. Set HQP to output to Devialet AIR, and I ran for a good hour or so without a hitch. Wonderful sound, no glitches, nothing.
I will persist with this for a few more sessions after my work day, but already the thoughts in my head, have Devialet finally cracked this!?!
AllenB in your network isolation, are the tp links 100 base or gigabit? How easy was it to setup? Is there still a noticeable improvement without powering the final tplink with the JS-2? I've been thinking of trying this for a while.
I'm assuming you're using the js-2 with the rendu as well? So in the optimal config for both - would you say AIR is better or equal or worse than the rendu?
It is the 100 Base-T version, not gigabit, and this is ample for music streaming. They were easy to set up. Almost plug and play, if I recollect I had to flick one of the dip switches, can't recollect which one exactly (something like 'auto-negotiation). The supplied wall warts are cheap bog-standard affairs, almost anything purchased separately should be an upgrade, of course, the JS-2 may well be over-board, but this does have two rails and one was going spare with the microRendu installed. Exactly how much it adds to the overall removal of 'noise' is hard to say, but at less than £50 for 2 x 110's and the cable, I bought as a punt, but also with the thought that this might also give me isolation from storms, which is a big consideration where I am going to live next year.
The JS-2 with MR has been really excellent, but it still bugs me how Dev's stand-by / USB implementation does not play well with these Linux based devices, nor HQP as a software player.
So, as in my OP, my aim was to see first whether AiR 3 was stable, and so far so good, haven't had a chance to listen for hours yet, but the crammed listening sessions lasting at most 90 minutes, and it has behaved, even with 24bit and/or 192khz streams of music. All AiR listening has been via ethernet, not had a chance to try AiR wi-fi yet (mainly because I have to do a new configuration for the Dev if I wanted to). As I said, the optic isolation provided by the TP Links did elevate AiR for me, going from something that did not compete with the Rendu (AiR ethernet on straight cable connection to network switch) to something that made me perk up and at least be on a very close level. I would need to listen for longer and harder to now determine which edges it, AiR certainly did not come across as 'better' (the Rendu with a good PSU and optic isolation is very, very good), but it was not clear cut either. Worthy of further trial and deliberation. And I do yearn for that clear-cut, streamlined route that AiR promised.
Hence my quandary
(30-Jul-2016, 07:10)AllenB Wrote: [ -> ]I've been thinking of trying this for a whil, I bought as a punt, but also with the thought that this might also give me isolation from storms, which is a big consideration where I am going to live next year.
Sounds interesting...
(30-Jul-2016, 07:10)AllenB Wrote: [ -> ]Hence my quandary
Same here.
It's a much better quandary than the one up to this point which has been researching and buying kit to give a USB source, but....
I'll try AIR this week, I owe it to myself. But even if it works, (and maybe even sounds better than my rendu & ifi solution), it won't be clear cut. Firstly I'll always have that niggling feeling it's going to stop working, or worse, that I'm hearing some sort of crackling/popping noises - I found that really played tricks with my mind and was utterly annoying - so it's left me scarred. Then I'll be thinking what if I then sell the rendu and assosisted goodies like Intona and cables, and then AIR stops working with an OS update, or they start focussing all their efforts on the new streamer board instead. I wouldn't then want to have to go through the process again.
It's not all against AIR though. The one thing it would allow is the use of Dirac as I could pipe that into the AIR driver. Right now I'm without it and I miss it quite a lot. I know Roon have convolvers on their roadmap, but when and what's unknown - I certainly don't want to be trying to manually combine shed loads of EQ curves in REW and cobbling together filters.
Anyone tried DSD in this new AIR release?
I have tried DSD on both the new AIR 3 Beta for Windows and the AIR 3 RC for Mac.
The Windows version allows me to enable DSD over PCM. The Mac version still requires convert DSD to PCM.
Regardless both the Windows and Mac versions have been working flawlessly for me. No bursts of noise ( have not had this ever since I switched to the AIR 3 Beta for Mac, not even once ). No dropouts, even the occasionally millisecond ones I would get maybe once a day with the initial Mac AIR3 Beta version. Both versions sound great.
I am using ethernet connections for the D400 and for either the Windows laptop or Mac Mini, both of which are running RoonServer, and for my Synology NAS which has my music files.
(30-Jul-2016, 22:36)baddog Wrote: [ -> ]I have tried DSD on both the new AIR 3 Beta for Windows and the AIR 3 RC for Mac.
The Windows version allows me to enable DSD over PCM. The Mac version still requires convert DSD to PCM.
Regardless both the Windows and Mac versions have been working flawlessly for me. No bursts of noise ( have not had this ever since I switched to the AIR 3 Beta for Mac, not even once ). No dropouts, even the occasionally millisecond ones I would get maybe once a day with the initial Mac AIR3 Beta version. Both versions sound great.
I am using ethernet connections for the D400 and for either the Windows laptop or Mac Mini, both of which are running RoonServer, and for my Synology NAS which has my music files.
Well done baddog for getting both Mac and Windows AIR 3 working flawlessly! Your comments re DSD are noted. However, sticking with redbook and PCM material, do you have any observations regarding how Windows and Mac AIR 3 compare with respect to sound quality? Have you noticed and differences?
Finally got round to installing and trying the latest beta.
Twenty mins in on 44.1 material no issues. I would most likely have got that far previously but it's encouraging. DSD was just static which was disappointing but I was obviously expecting from posts here.
Fairly easy to A/B the microRendu/Intona combo although there's still a pause setting inputs. There's not much in it initially, but if I had to call first impression I'd say AIR has a 'thicker', deeper bass, which I actually prefer right now. Too quick a listen to compare more than that so time will tell.
First thing I'll do is leave it playing silently overnight on high-res and see where we are in the morning. And then all week if I can. If it still works after that I'll finally be back in the position of choosing to use the setup I had in mind at purchase. Crazy! But at least crazy positive for once.
Would I switch back? Even if it worked solidly and sounded better even? I'm honestly still not sure.
(31-Jul-2016, 15:45)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]Finally got round to installing and trying the latest beta.
Twenty mins in on 44.1 material no issues. I would most likely have got that far previously but it's encouraging. DSD was just static which was disappointing but I was obviously expecting from posts here.
Fairly easy to A/B the microRendu/Intona combo although there's still a pause setting inputs. There's not much in it initially, but if I had to call first impression I'd say AIR has a 'thicker', deeper bass, which I actually prefer right now. Too quick a listen to compare more than that so time will tell.
First thing I'll do is leave it playing silently overnight on high-res and see where we are in the morning. And then all week if I can. If it still works after that I'll finally be back in the position of choosing to use the setup I had in mind at purchase. Crazy! But at least crazy positive for once.
Would I switch back? Even if it worked solidly and sounded better even? I'm honestly still not sure.
Maybe you should try Windows version. It supports DSD well.
Would never change OS to get around software bugs or whatever. No Windows in this house for the last 10+ years, and happy to stay that way...
Thinking about things practically (and trying to stay positive) if it worked ok except for DSD, it wouldn't be a dealbraker as DSD isn't prevalent in my collection of my main material (not much electronic DSD!). Since it works on a Windows and they gave an active support page, I'll pose the question there - if there's a commitment to fixing it on OSX then that's something. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
Forgot to kick off stress test last night
Three hours in on high-res, and it's all f'ed up!
So, a total disappointment and doesn't look like the microRendu's going anywhere anytime soon.
Positivity wave well and truly over.
I'm not even going to start troubleshooting, test complete, moving on. Will try again once a non-beta comes out and re-evaluate then.
All I can say is "thank you Roon".
(31-Jul-2016, 15:45)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]Finally got round to installing and trying the latest beta
Fairly easy to A/B the microRendu/Intona combo although there's still a pause setting inputs. There's not much in it initially, but if I had to call first impression I'd say AIR has a 'thicker', deeper bass, which I actually prefer right now. Too quick a listen to compare more than that so time will tell.
That's actually some interesting observations. When I tried the mR vs AIR, I did find that AIR was much clearer and better defined with the deepest bass, although I preferred the mR for most other aspects 100 Hz or so upwards. My theory is that this is a quirk of the Devialet's USB input as I noticed similar when auditioning the Melco N1Z. Although using the mR + Mutec and AES/EBU to the Devialet, the issue is gone!
(01-Aug-2016, 13:37)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (31-Jul-2016, 15:45)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]Finally got round to installing and trying the latest beta
Fairly easy to A/B the microRendu/Intona combo although there's still a pause setting inputs. There's not much in it initially, but if I had to call first impression I'd say AIR has a 'thicker', deeper bass, which I actually prefer right now. Too quick a listen to compare more than that so time will tell.
That's actually some interesting observations. When I tried the mR vs AIR, I did find that AIR was much clearer and better defined with the deepest bass, although I preferred the mR for most other aspects 100 Hz or so upwards. My theory is that this is a quirk of the Devialet's USB input as I noticed similar when auditioning the Melco N1Z. Although using the mR + Mutec and AES/EBU to the Devialet, the issue is gone!
Yup, shame things didn't work out though so (once again) it's not much of a dilemma. I would like that extra bass, and to be able to use Dirac. So it seems the Intona makes an improvement, but probably not as much as avoiding the USB input altogether. Maybe that will be improved in the new one.
But I'm happy back on the rendu. I had a bit of listening fatigue yesterday so don't know if that was AIR or just me playing too loud. Probably the latter!