11-Aug-2015, 05:47
@hk - are you using the beta version or release version of the Air application on the Windows 10 system?
Where are your music files located?
Where are your music files located?
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11-Aug-2015, 05:47
11-Aug-2015, 06:15
(11-Aug-2015, 05:47)baddog Wrote: [ -> ]@hk - are you using the beta version or release version of the Air application on the Windows 10 system?
Where are your music files located?
Air is 2.1.4beta.
Music are stored on two NAS, on two different locations in the house, wired to 2 different routers.
11-Aug-2015, 17:27
Wanted to take Roon for a spin to see what all the excitement is about. My current setup is completely trouble free;
• iMac running Logitech Media Server. This is situated one floor and three rooms away from my listening room.
• Audio distribution via the Squeezebox family of products – I’m heavily invested here, with seven receivers around the property in all.
• D200 fed with a Squeezebox receiver via digital input
• All control via iPhone or iPad, using the brilliant iPeng app
As I say, all works a treat. I have no way other than Ethernet to get from my media iMac to the D200, which is obviously fine via the squeezebox receiver. No need for wifi (other than the iphone/ipad control) as the house is flood-wired.
Dabbled with Air once or twice just to see if it worked, but never needed it in anger owing to the stability and ease of current distribution. Put off further by the various discussions on this forum.
Anyway, onto Roon. For me I have two listening modes.
• Lean-back. Just queue up some sounds, dim the lights, grab a beer and enjoy the music. In this mode something like Roon adds no value, and would actually be a distraction.
• Lean-forward. This is where I was interested in what Roon has to offer, where I want to listen, explore, discover, and generally surf my collection (potentially adding Tidal once I actually get enough broadband in the wilds of Gloucestershire!)
First impressions? It’s absolutely fantastic – best thing I’ve found for “lean-forward” mode bar none. Sure, there are a few quirks, “focus on similar” for Kate Bush threw up Alice in Chains for instance (girl’s names?) but overall for a V1.0 release it’s a cracking piece of software. I want it. However, I’m unlikely to take the leap just yet for two reasons.
The first and biggest is Air. Given my setup, and the geography of my technology Air is the only (current) way of getting the signal from iMac to D200. It’s just not stable, even over gigabit Ethernet. I can now see what all the angst is about. Pops, crackles (no white noise though to date) I fed it some HD and it melted. It’s even needed restarting when I’ve skipped to the next track on a couple of occasions. Every time it wobbles I have to trek halfway across the house to kick/restart Air on the iMac. Kind of ruins the moment!
Second is being worked on as we speak I’m sure, and that’s the iPad Roon client. There’s simply something I don’t like about having a MacBook in my listening room, too obtrusive. An iPad however would be perfect (in the same way as it is with iPeng currently) So long as it’s slick when it’s released we can tick that one off.
So, it’s Air that kills it for me at present. Two future solutions I’m pinning my hopes on;
• Roon supporting the Squeezebox ecosystem as endpoints. I’ve seen some very encouraging posts on the Roon forums saying this will be looked at. The Roon guys seem to be really happy to engage with the user community, which is great (and refreshing!)
• Wait until this baby is released as discussed elsewhere on this forum http://www.microrendu.sonore.us to create a reliable (hopefully) Ethernet fed endpoint to the proximity of the D200. The spec states it will act as a Roon endpoint, if so it’s job done, no need for Air
Appreciate any further thoughts – am I missing something obvious? I’d happily continue with Roon if there were a way to get the audio there reliably.
• iMac running Logitech Media Server. This is situated one floor and three rooms away from my listening room.
• Audio distribution via the Squeezebox family of products – I’m heavily invested here, with seven receivers around the property in all.
• D200 fed with a Squeezebox receiver via digital input
• All control via iPhone or iPad, using the brilliant iPeng app
As I say, all works a treat. I have no way other than Ethernet to get from my media iMac to the D200, which is obviously fine via the squeezebox receiver. No need for wifi (other than the iphone/ipad control) as the house is flood-wired.
Dabbled with Air once or twice just to see if it worked, but never needed it in anger owing to the stability and ease of current distribution. Put off further by the various discussions on this forum.
Anyway, onto Roon. For me I have two listening modes.
• Lean-back. Just queue up some sounds, dim the lights, grab a beer and enjoy the music. In this mode something like Roon adds no value, and would actually be a distraction.
• Lean-forward. This is where I was interested in what Roon has to offer, where I want to listen, explore, discover, and generally surf my collection (potentially adding Tidal once I actually get enough broadband in the wilds of Gloucestershire!)
First impressions? It’s absolutely fantastic – best thing I’ve found for “lean-forward” mode bar none. Sure, there are a few quirks, “focus on similar” for Kate Bush threw up Alice in Chains for instance (girl’s names?) but overall for a V1.0 release it’s a cracking piece of software. I want it. However, I’m unlikely to take the leap just yet for two reasons.
The first and biggest is Air. Given my setup, and the geography of my technology Air is the only (current) way of getting the signal from iMac to D200. It’s just not stable, even over gigabit Ethernet. I can now see what all the angst is about. Pops, crackles (no white noise though to date) I fed it some HD and it melted. It’s even needed restarting when I’ve skipped to the next track on a couple of occasions. Every time it wobbles I have to trek halfway across the house to kick/restart Air on the iMac. Kind of ruins the moment!
Second is being worked on as we speak I’m sure, and that’s the iPad Roon client. There’s simply something I don’t like about having a MacBook in my listening room, too obtrusive. An iPad however would be perfect (in the same way as it is with iPeng currently) So long as it’s slick when it’s released we can tick that one off.
So, it’s Air that kills it for me at present. Two future solutions I’m pinning my hopes on;
• Roon supporting the Squeezebox ecosystem as endpoints. I’ve seen some very encouraging posts on the Roon forums saying this will be looked at. The Roon guys seem to be really happy to engage with the user community, which is great (and refreshing!)
• Wait until this baby is released as discussed elsewhere on this forum http://www.microrendu.sonore.us to create a reliable (hopefully) Ethernet fed endpoint to the proximity of the D200. The spec states it will act as a Roon endpoint, if so it’s job done, no need for Air
Appreciate any further thoughts – am I missing something obvious? I’d happily continue with Roon if there were a way to get the audio there reliably.
11-Aug-2015, 17:47
Hi Vincent, great to hear the thoughts of someone else on a Roon trial….
I'm also loving it, and so far find it pretty good across the board - excellent for a v1 as you say - and those guys don't seem shy about bug fixes/improvements based on user community feedback, so I have no doubts it will get better.
I hear your pain re: Air. 'Ruins the moment' kind of sums it up. Some will leap to its defence and say its problems are due to OS bug's in both Windows and OSX, but that doesn't wash with me. There are countless lines of code in most applications working their way around OS bugs and weirdnesses - its just par for the course. As a developer you either fix the issues and release a new version in a timely manner, or you withdraw it, or say 'only available on Windows 10' or whatever. Anyway, none of that helps you….
I've also been following the Roon forum. iOS is definitely coming this month, along with some other nice features, as per their August product announcement. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-la...ugust/2931
RoonSpeakers will follow afterwards, and although no-one knows exactly when and in what order - it seems likely from what they've said that Raspberry Pi will become an endpoint option, and I think I saw Squeezebox there too. If by some miracle Devialet adopt RoonSpeakers, we could all (all Roon users anyway) dump Air and go straight into the Dev that way. I've go a RPi 2 just sitting there waiting for a use after some other failed tests, so I'm holding out for the Pi. They did say they've already teamed up with some manufacturers and will announce a list so I guess the micro rendu is one of them? Does it say that one their website?
So, if v1.1 comes out before the end of your trial maybe that will be enough, otherwise I don't think it will be too long before viable low-cost endpoints start appearing - lots of people are in the same boat and they know they need to crack that aspect pronto.
And yes, I found 'focus on similar' weak compared to the 'Similar To', 'Followed' 'Collaborated with' and 'Associated With' sections of the artist info - which are what I use most in my exploration. I'm sure this will be addressed at some point.
Incidentally, I haven't decided whether to take the plunge and buy Roon, although I'm sure I won't want to go back to iTunes/Air after this, or Audirvana+ so I'll have to find a way to justify it - I don't particularly like subscription models as its just another recurring fee in my life, so I'll have to stump up for the 'lifetime'….
I'm also loving it, and so far find it pretty good across the board - excellent for a v1 as you say - and those guys don't seem shy about bug fixes/improvements based on user community feedback, so I have no doubts it will get better.
I hear your pain re: Air. 'Ruins the moment' kind of sums it up. Some will leap to its defence and say its problems are due to OS bug's in both Windows and OSX, but that doesn't wash with me. There are countless lines of code in most applications working their way around OS bugs and weirdnesses - its just par for the course. As a developer you either fix the issues and release a new version in a timely manner, or you withdraw it, or say 'only available on Windows 10' or whatever. Anyway, none of that helps you….
I've also been following the Roon forum. iOS is definitely coming this month, along with some other nice features, as per their August product announcement. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-la...ugust/2931
RoonSpeakers will follow afterwards, and although no-one knows exactly when and in what order - it seems likely from what they've said that Raspberry Pi will become an endpoint option, and I think I saw Squeezebox there too. If by some miracle Devialet adopt RoonSpeakers, we could all (all Roon users anyway) dump Air and go straight into the Dev that way. I've go a RPi 2 just sitting there waiting for a use after some other failed tests, so I'm holding out for the Pi. They did say they've already teamed up with some manufacturers and will announce a list so I guess the micro rendu is one of them? Does it say that one their website?
So, if v1.1 comes out before the end of your trial maybe that will be enough, otherwise I don't think it will be too long before viable low-cost endpoints start appearing - lots of people are in the same boat and they know they need to crack that aspect pronto.
And yes, I found 'focus on similar' weak compared to the 'Similar To', 'Followed' 'Collaborated with' and 'Associated With' sections of the artist info - which are what I use most in my exploration. I'm sure this will be addressed at some point.
Incidentally, I haven't decided whether to take the plunge and buy Roon, although I'm sure I won't want to go back to iTunes/Air after this, or Audirvana+ so I'll have to find a way to justify it - I don't particularly like subscription models as its just another recurring fee in my life, so I'll have to stump up for the 'lifetime'….
11-Aug-2015, 18:27
I'm on the annual sub, but v1.1 could tip me over into converting to lifetime. Can't wait to see who picks up on RoonSpeakers, sadly Dev HQ seems oblivious. Live in hope.
12-Aug-2015, 20:40
(11-Aug-2015, 17:47)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Vincent, great to hear the thoughts of someone else on a Roon trial….Had a lightbulb moment - I have a rarely used Apple TV in the rack which I cannibalised and plumbed into the optical port of the D200, so I can now abandon Air and use Apple Airplay temporarily for my Roon transport. Been listening for a couple of hours without issue. This will do the job to make an informed decision surrounding Roon, and it can eventually be replaced with a more audiophile solution once one exists!
I'm also loving it, and so far find it pretty good across the board - excellent for a v1 as you say - and those guys don't seem shy about bug fixes/improvements based on user community feedback, so I have no doubts it will get better.
I hear your pain re: Air. 'Ruins the moment' kind of sums it up. Some will leap to its defence and say its problems are due to OS bug's in both Windows and OSX, but that doesn't wash with me. There are countless lines of code in most applications working their way around OS bugs and weirdnesses - its just par for the course. As a developer you either fix the issues and release a new version in a timely manner, or you withdraw it, or say 'only available on Windows 10' or whatever. Anyway, none of that helps you….
I've also been following the Roon forum. iOS is definitely coming this month, along with some other nice features, as per their August product announcement. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-la...ugust/2931
RoonSpeakers will follow afterwards, and although no-one knows exactly when and in what order - it seems likely from what they've said that Raspberry Pi will become an endpoint option, and I think I saw Squeezebox there too. If by some miracle Devialet adopt RoonSpeakers, we could all (all Roon users anyway) dump Air and go straight into the Dev that way. I've go a RPi 2 just sitting there waiting for a use after some other failed tests, so I'm holding out for the Pi. They did say they've already teamed up with some manufacturers and will announce a list so I guess the micro rendu is one of them? Does it say that one their website?
So, if v1.1 comes out before the end of your trial maybe that will be enough, otherwise I don't think it will be too long before viable low-cost endpoints start appearing - lots of people are in the same boat and they know they need to crack that aspect pronto.
And yes, I found 'focus on similar' weak compared to the 'Similar To', 'Followed' 'Collaborated with' and 'Associated With' sections of the artist info - which are what I use most in my exploration. I'm sure this will be addressed at some point.
Incidentally, I haven't decided whether to take the plunge and buy Roon, although I'm sure I won't want to go back to iTunes/Air after this, or Audirvana+ so I'll have to find a way to justify it - I don't particularly like subscription models as its just another recurring fee in my life, so I'll have to stump up for the 'lifetime'….
Hopefully 1.1 will land any day now, plus the IOS release to complete the picture.
Like you, not keen on subscription type models. However, a lifetime investment in a fickle and somewhat niche market has its own risks... even for a product that clearly has huge potential. One to ponder over the next week or so.
10-Sep-2015, 02:16
So ROONers, am I right that ROON and AIR still don't play well together? I just signed up for a ROON trial, and as many of you report, I'm getting intermittent pops and clicks running ROON through AIR (over Ethernet). I'm reluctant to redo everything for USB and buy a new tablet for ROON Remote (my old iPads won't do, nor will my Nexus 7), even if ROON is a nice interface.
Back to iTunes until it gets ironed out...
Back to iTunes until it gets ironed out...
10-Sep-2015, 02:53
Well for me at least AIR in and of itself doesn't play very well alone. So adding Roon to the equation wouldn't make much a of a difference. I believe there might be others running Roon and AIR under a Windows 10 setup.
10-Sep-2015, 07:20
(10-Sep-2015, 02:16)flohmann Wrote: [ -> ]So ROONers, am I right that ROON and AIR still don't play well together? I just signed up for a ROON trial, and as many of you report, I'm getting intermittent pops and clicks running ROON through AIR (over Ethernet). I'm reluctant to redo everything for USB and buy a new tablet for ROON Remote (my old iPads won't do, nor will my Nexus 7), even if ROON is a nice interface.
Back to iTunes until it gets ironed out...
It's an AIR issue, not a Roon issue, Roon will not resolve the AIR problems, but RoonSpeakers would. Notwithstanding I had Roon and AIR ethernet working fairly reliably. Maybe 3-4 hours before I started to get stuttering, cycle the Dev's inputs and it's sorted for the next few hours. But ..... I am now firmly in the USB / Regen user camp, totally reliable and it sounds better than AIR to boot
10-Sep-2015, 16:53
I did not read the hole thread but except many technical issues and improvements Roon is working on it is not quite clear to me what Roon is for.
That what I could read on different threads: Roon is a software which has better metadata and additional info than e.g. iTunes. Sound wise it is not better than Audirvana+ etc.. The amount of downloads I have I can manage without all the extra possibilities of Roon (at least presently). Roon is as fas as I know the only software which can integrate Tidal and I can see having better navigation and more information about music than Tidal supplies would be very positive but there is a lot of music I can not find on Tidal (and having a better UI would not change that) so I am not sure whether it makes sense for me to continue to subscribe to Tidal.
So can any of you Roon user tell me if I am missing something?
P.s.:
Using a Roon derived software (Roonspeaker) not on a computer but in a music server or something similar is different (and would likely not be part of a Roon subscription). MQA integration might change my evaluation too!
That what I could read on different threads: Roon is a software which has better metadata and additional info than e.g. iTunes. Sound wise it is not better than Audirvana+ etc.. The amount of downloads I have I can manage without all the extra possibilities of Roon (at least presently). Roon is as fas as I know the only software which can integrate Tidal and I can see having better navigation and more information about music than Tidal supplies would be very positive but there is a lot of music I can not find on Tidal (and having a better UI would not change that) so I am not sure whether it makes sense for me to continue to subscribe to Tidal.
So can any of you Roon user tell me if I am missing something?
P.s.:
Using a Roon derived software (Roonspeaker) not on a computer but in a music server or something similar is different (and would likely not be part of a Roon subscription). MQA integration might change my evaluation too!