(08-Mar-2016, 11:36)hk6230 Wrote: [ -> ]If your computer is used as Roonserver (or Core) and stay near to your Devialet, there's no reason for you to have another streamer product like Sonore in your music chain. If the new 'device' is still using USB to connect to your Devialet, I don't see it having much of an advantage over a PC. If an Auralic Aries using AES connection to Devialet, maybe there's some difference. There are some who will claim that because Sonore is built from ground up as audiophile grade hence will sound better. But I won't buy it. If one claims that Sonore has lower jitters and hence, better SQ. I still think it is BS, as our Expert system has a very good Master Clock that will remove most jitters.
I would find a device like that useful if I have another hifi setup in another location and I can stream my music to it.
That's an interesting opinion. There are many posts & threads here about sound quality differences between different streamers. For example Auralic vs Aurender vs Melco (connected to the Devialet by USB). Many are thinking that these sound better than any basic computer. Also there are some threads on Roon forums why separating a core and a player is a good idea.
(08-Mar-2016, 18:16)petrik Wrote: [ -> ] (08-Mar-2016, 11:36)hk6230 Wrote: [ -> ]If your computer is used as Roonserver (or Core) and stay near to your Devialet, there's no reason for you to have another streamer product like Sonore in your music chain. If the new 'device' is still using USB to connect to your Devialet, I don't see it having much of an advantage over a PC. If an Auralic Aries using AES connection to Devialet, maybe there's some difference. There are some who will claim that because Sonore is built from ground up as audiophile grade hence will sound better. But I won't buy it. If one claims that Sonore has lower jitters and hence, better SQ. I still think it is BS, as our Expert system has a very good Master Clock that will remove most jitters.
I would find a device like that useful if I have another hifi setup in another location and I can stream my music to it.
That's an interesting opinion. There are many posts & threads here about sound quality differences between different streamers. For example Auralic vs Aurender vs Melco (connected to the Devialet by USB). Many are thinking that these sound better than any basic computer. Also there are some threads on Roon forums why separating a core and a player is a good idea.
I have no doubt a noisy computer directly connected to your audio gear can cause issues A well built regular computer is no worst then a small computer such as the Auralic or others. I'm with @
hk6230 on this one. These smaller devices will be more aesthetically pleasing though.
I'm running a 2015 mac mini with SSD and Roon core, directly into my 120 via USB ..and all I can say is that it performs and sounds fantastic.
For my ears at least, I really don't think I will hear the difference between this solution and a dedicated (and much more expensive) streamer. The benefit is that I can also run Kodi/Plex on the mac mini, and I have a very simple (and good looking) 2 box solution that handles all my audio and video/movies, including multi-room audio (via airplay at the moment), but many more options will open up when version 1.2 get's released.
HF noise and jitter impacts the D to A process. I know from experience that also our Devialet's are anything but insensitive to what they're being fed through their inputs. Clean power, high quality clocks, proper isolation of digital and analog circuits and grounds matter greatly in a source and DAC.
This isn't something new and has been known for decades. Proper engineering principles are being applied to CD players and DAC's since long. Ethernet and USB are lagging behind but the business is catching up. Soon everyone won't even remember we were foolish enough to not isolate a USB input for example.
People really need to try for themselves. Saying it all doesn't matter primarily based on textbook theory, to me, is the equivalent of saying the earth is flat. Seriously, it shows either blind faith in the engineers who made the products and/or a serious lack of knowledge.
All completely correct, and technically valid. However, for me it comes down to what my ears hear, and what I'm willing to pay to get 'x' level of improvement, over what I think is an already 'very good' sounding solution. But that is of course, a completely personal thing.
(08-Mar-2016, 20:15)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]HF noise and jitter impacts the D to A process. I know from experience that also our Devialet's are anything but insensitive to what they're being fed through their inputs. Clean power, high quality clocks, proper isolation of digital and analog circuits and grounds matter greatly in a source and DAC.
This isn't something new and has been known for decades. Proper engineering principles are being applied to CD players and DAC's since long. Ethernet and USB are lagging behind but the business is catching up. Soon everyone won't even remember we were foolish enough to not isolate a USB input for example.
People really need to try for themselves. Saying it all doesn't matter primarily based on textbook theory, to me, is the equivalent of saying the earth is flat. Seriously, it shows either blind faith in the engineers who made the products and/or a serious lack of knowledge.
Hi blodsbror, of course my remark wasn't specifically directed at you. In fact only in part to you (just the "try it for yourself" part if you'd like to) since you already mentioned that you doubt if you would hear a difference. This is something completely different than saying it all doesn't matter or implying differences don't/can't exist.
Of course, no probs
On that note, I'm actually quite open to trying new options. And if I do hear a streamer give me a marked improvement in SQ, I would be silly not to investigate it further, depending on price. I guess, I'm lucky to have found something that sounds good to my ears, without requiring a Melco, or Aurender..
(08-Mar-2016, 21:00)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]Hi blodsbror, of course my remark wasn't specifically directed at you. In fact only in part to you (just the "try it for yourself" part if you'd like to) since you already mentioned that you doubt if you would hear a difference. This is something completely different than saying it all doesn't matter or implying differences don't/can't exist.
A simple Uptone Regen showed me that there is still ground noise on a USB connection from a highly optimised MacMini using a Chord Signature TA USB cable. The MacMini is a stock base latest model, but has had the HDD replaced with SSD, the stock power supply replaced by the Uptone JS-2 & MMK upgrades, it runs just the basic OS and very little else other than getting music out through the USB, which incidentally sits on a separate server. Wired network, wi-fi and bluetooth switched off. Some processes switched off and/or not even started. And still the Regen cleaned up what was being delivered by USB.
So everything has an effect, no system out there is completely 'clean', just degrees of optimisation in both hardware and software. It's all possible to hear, just depends on the ears listening.
Just a side question, would Roon being played via Devialet AIR over wifi to the Devialet - be free from all of these technical issues and jitter, essentially ?. If so, and if Devialet can finally find a solution to the known AIR issues..then that can be a very nice solution indeed.
On paper/in theory it would. "The best wire is no wire". In practice however it all depends on the quality of implementation.
WiFi is noisy (remember the issue Devialet had with it and the phono inputs) it would need to be isolated well from the other circuits especially the analog circuits. It's digital so the circuits use local clocks, some say these need to be high quality as well even if there's a master clock and a buffer later. Same goes for the internal interfaces that need to be low jitter/low noise. The quality of the software controlling it all needs to be high as well (remember people hearing changes everytime Devialet issues new firmware. And not just with Devialet, it happens with PS Audio as well. They at least use this to their advantage and tune their FPGA code/firmware).
There's so many variables I'm sure I'm forgetting a number of them. I'm not a designer myself of course. I tend to believe there isn't necessarily one best type of interface, again it all depends on the quality of implementation. There's probably just interfaces that are easier to do right than others.