Devialet Chat

(09-Nov-2017, 13:07)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if 50 people have signed a petition for Roon RAAT, that must be at least 0.5% of Devialet customers.

Your numbers are incorrect. There were 4 customers in total asking for Roon RAAT according to Oceane yesterday.

(09-Nov-2017, 13:07)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]The idea that Devialet will give up on its wireless protocol, let alone become reliant on a third party protocol, is just plain madness. By all means have 100 third party protocols, just make sure their own one works as a priority.

No one has said that they should give up on AIR. They can keep the AIR, but in addition support also Roon RAAT.

(09-Nov-2017, 13:45)petrik Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:07)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if 50 people have signed a petition for Roon RAAT, that must be at least 0.5% of Devialet customers.

Your numbers are incorrect. There were 4 customers in total asking for Roon RAAT according to Oceane yesterday.

Half of 100 who did some unofficial survey, according to an earlier post.

I'm not in favour of this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core. 

Love him or hate him, Steve Jobs was a bit of a genius and he never asked customers about how to take a product forward. Quite the opposite, he maintained absolute secrecy and effectively told the customers what was good for them. And you know what? It worked. He created the largest company in the world that way.

I truly wish Devialet had simply said nothing at all about Core until it was ready. I bought my Devialet with the free upgrade, but I bought it based on the product as it was at the time. If they never mentioned Core at the time I would have still bought it.

I think it was a marketing mistake, but perhaps with the benefit of hindsight.

(09-Nov-2017, 14:11)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:45)petrik Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:07)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if 50 people have signed a petition for Roon RAAT, that must be at least 0.5% of Devialet customers.

Your numbers are incorrect. There were 4 customers in total asking for Roon RAAT according to Oceane yesterday.

Half of 100 who did some unofficial survey, according to an earlier post.

I'm not in favour of this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core. 

Love him or hate him, Steve Jobs was a bit of a genius and he never asked customers about how to take a product forward. Quite the opposite, he maintained absolute secrecy and effectively told the customers what was good for them. And you know what? It worked. He created the largest company in the world that way.

I truly wish Devialet had simply said nothing at all about Core until it was ready. I bought my Devialet with the free upgrade, but I bought it based on the product as it was at the time. If they never mentioned Core at the time I would have still bought it.

I think it was a marketing mistake, but perhaps with the benefit of hindsight.

What you said, me too.

(09-Nov-2017, 14:11)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:45)petrik Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:07)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if 50 people have signed a petition for Roon RAAT, that must be at least 0.5% of Devialet customers.

Your numbers are incorrect. There were 4 customers in total asking for Roon RAAT according to Oceane yesterday.

Half of 100 who did some unofficial survey, according to an earlier post.

I'm not in favour of this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core. 

Love him or hate him, Steve Jobs was a bit of a genius and he never asked customers about how to take a product forward. Quite the opposite, he maintained absolute secrecy and effectively told the customers what was good for them. And you know what? It worked. He created the largest company in the world that way.

I truly wish Devialet had simply said nothing at all about Core until it was ready. I bought my Devialet with the free upgrade, but I bought it based on the product as it was at the time. If they never mentioned Core at the time I would have still bought it.

I think it was a marketing mistake, but perhaps with the benefit of hindsight.

ssfas

Devialet themselves say they don't take any particular notice of what's said here on Devialetchat, so your comment "this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core" does come across a tiny bit melodramatic.

Not wanting to get on your bad side, and not trying to downplay what you have said as everyone has there own opinion, you've every right the same as everyone else has to express their feelings.

Roon does have an ever expanding Partner listing, which only keeps growing, so it would not only be a benefit to those who are asking for it to be included with the Core Infinity, but it would be another attractive feature for potential customers of Devialet. Off course, which feature takes priority is up to Devialet, but I really don't see why it's a mistake for them to listen to their customer base. Steve Jobs did help Apple to expand into the Global Company it has become today, but not every decision he made is an example to be followed (he did make mistakes along the way also).

For the Core Infinity a 100% fully functioning board should be first priority, followed by Operating Software, then finally by it's features (proposed features only work, if the board works, and it's operating software is error free).

There appears to be some animosity creeping into some of the comments on this thread, and I would hope that everyone maintains the friendly environment that Devialetchat has always had.

Hope you continue enjoying your Expert, and everyone else (eventually) gets what they're hoping for regarding the Core Infinity.

Wow, Quentin's letter certainly did stir things up.  FWIW, here's my take...

-- Roon users are frustrated because Devialet never fully fixed AIR and has never been willing to state whether they will implement RAAT now or in the future.  

-- We all are frustrated because for over a year, Devialet remained relatively quiet as to what, exactly, the new CI board and OS will bring.  Eventually, they said to wait until October 17.

-- We all are frustrated because when Oct 17 arrived, we were told to wait until Nov 7 -- still without any additional information as to what to expect.

Personally, I have no problem with missed deadlines - shit happens.  My frustration is simply that Devialet does not communicate which leaves us surmising and second guessing.  Much of the debate in these threads is now about what "WE" think their priorities should be.  That's crazy!  Devialet has not asked us for our opinions and best I can tell, they're not listening.

What I want most is a CI board and OS that works as intended.  I do believe its primary purpose is to serve as the basis for future features and functionality of the Expert Pro line.   It's Devialet's job to decide what that will be.  We keep deluding ourselves into thinking we have (or should have) input to their design processes.  I do not believe that Devialet's current corporate culture provides for that.  At least, I see no evidence for such.  That's certainly not unique to them.  What we hope is that they're smart enough to meet and exceed our expectations.  We don't want to be disappointed.  We love our Experts!   But reality being what it is, if they don't or can't, we'll move on.   

What is important (yet I fear not likely to occur) is for Devialet to adopt a more open and communicative style of interacting with their customers.   Quentin's letter was clearly a big step in that direction - albeit a bit late.  But as many questions as it answered, it opened the door for many more - hence the fierce discussion going on here.

My goal now is to set my keyboard aside, give Devialet time to sort out these problems, and just listen to the music.

(09-Nov-2017, 15:02)Celts88 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 14:11)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 13:45)petrik Wrote: [ -> ]Your numbers are incorrect. There were 4 customers in total asking for Roon RAAT according to Oceane yesterday.

Half of 100 who did some unofficial survey, according to an earlier post.

I'm not in favour of this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core. 

Love him or hate him, Steve Jobs was a bit of a genius and he never asked customers about how to take a product forward. Quite the opposite, he maintained absolute secrecy and effectively told the customers what was good for them. And you know what? It worked. He created the largest company in the world that way.

I truly wish Devialet had simply said nothing at all about Core until it was ready. I bought my Devialet with the free upgrade, but I bought it based on the product as it was at the time. If they never mentioned Core at the time I would have still bought it.

I think it was a marketing mistake, but perhaps with the benefit of hindsight.

ssfas

Devialet themselves say they don't take any particular notice of what's said here on Devialetchat, so your comment "this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core" does come across a tiny bit melodramatic.

Not wanting to get on your bad side, and not trying to downplay what you have said as everyone has there own opinion, you've every right the same as everyone else has to express their feelings.

Roon does have an ever expanding Partner listing, which only keeps growing, so it would not only be a benefit to those who are asking for it to be included with the Core Infinity, but it would be another attractive feature for potential customers of Devialet. Off course, which feature takes priority is up to Devialet, but I really don't see why it's a mistake for them to listen to their customer base. Steve Jobs did help Apple to expand into the Global Company it has become today, but not every decision he made is an example to be followed (he did make mistakes along the way also).

For the Core Infinity a 100% fully functioning board should be first priority, followed by Operating Software, then finally by it's features (proposed features only work, if the board works, and it's operating software is error free).

There appears to be some animosity creeping into some of the comments on this thread, and I would hope that everyone maintains the friendly environment that Devialetchat has always had.

Hope you continue enjoying your Expert, and everyone else (eventually) gets what they're hoping for regarding the Core Infinity.

It seems that a campaign here to bombard "official" Devialet channels resulted in the Devialet website posting board being closed down when the Devialet doors opened this morning, which is not exactly helpful (the bombarders, not Devialet). 
https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/artic...2#comments

There is a lot of "Air is no good so we must have Roon RAAT" going on here. What I am arguing is that first and foremost we should ask them to concentrate their efforts on getting Air to work faultlessly, to facilitate standard unPnP/DLNA network connectivity and to support the main online music providers, airplay and bluetooth.

If Roon, Deezer, Wheezy and the rest of the seven dwarfs sit on the platform, then fine, but they must be guests, not the main event. Leica Camera, for example, about 10 years ago decided to rely on Kodak for the sensors on its main consumer product. Kodak went bust, they couldn't get sensors and the ones installed turned out to be faulty. It almost killed the brand. Naim did the same, their server/streamers used third party software that suffered fatal crashes, often requiring a RTB reinstallation. It happened to me twice (on a non-Naim device licensing the same software). They have now developed their own platform. 

This may all be rather academic as, whilst online streaming services are very advanced, the music industry is struggling to work out how to make money from it. It's all about distribution. VP Digital is possibly the least attractive music industry job at the moment. Most or all of these streaming services may fold. I've thought for a while that the best platform available for getting streaming right would be Amazon Prime.

My requests for Devialet Expert would include DSP, a decent cappuccino and the morning papers. The most likely one is the morning papers, you just need to host thetimes.co.uk. The least likely is probably DSP.

(09-Nov-2017, 17:12)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 15:02)Celts88 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Nov-2017, 14:11)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]Half of 100 who did some unofficial survey, according to an earlier post.

I'm not in favour of this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core. 

Love him or hate him, Steve Jobs was a bit of a genius and he never asked customers about how to take a product forward. Quite the opposite, he maintained absolute secrecy and effectively told the customers what was good for them. And you know what? It worked. He created the largest company in the world that way.

I truly wish Devialet had simply said nothing at all about Core until it was ready. I bought my Devialet with the free upgrade, but I bought it based on the product as it was at the time. If they never mentioned Core at the time I would have still bought it.

I think it was a marketing mistake, but perhaps with the benefit of hindsight.

ssfas

Devialet themselves say they don't take any particular notice of what's said here on Devialetchat, so your comment "this open forum driving of what may or may not go into Core" does come across a tiny bit melodramatic.

Not wanting to get on your bad side, and not trying to downplay what you have said as everyone has there own opinion, you've every right the same as everyone else has to express their feelings.

Roon does have an ever expanding Partner listing, which only keeps growing, so it would not only be a benefit to those who are asking for it to be included with the Core Infinity, but it would be another attractive feature for potential customers of Devialet. Off course, which feature takes priority is up to Devialet, but I really don't see why it's a mistake for them to listen to their customer base. Steve Jobs did help Apple to expand into the Global Company it has become today, but not every decision he made is an example to be followed (he did make mistakes along the way also).

For the Core Infinity a 100% fully functioning board should be first priority, followed by Operating Software, then finally by it's features (proposed features only work, if the board works, and it's operating software is error free).

There appears to be some animosity creeping into some of the comments on this thread, and I would hope that everyone maintains the friendly environment that Devialetchat has always had.

Hope you continue enjoying your Expert, and everyone else (eventually) gets what they're hoping for regarding the Core Infinity.

It seems that a campaign here to bombard "official" Devialet channels resulted in the Devialet website posting board being closed down when the Devialet doors opened this morning

Not sure what you mean, worked ok letting me post only a few minutes ago on the Quentin Sannié | Core Infinity Software thread

(09-Nov-2017, 17:12)ssfas Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lot of "Air is no good so we must have Roon RAAT" going on here. What I am arguing is that first and foremost we should ask them to concentrate their efforts on getting Air to work faultlessly.

Trust me - the situation has been like this for years. Today I checked all my messages with Devialet support and apparently my problems with AIR started on August 2015. My email box has a bit over 400 emails with Devialet support, my dealer, and Roon fellows concerning only these AIR problems... Devialet has tried numerous different fixes to AIR without any luck so far. The Roon/AIR integration is best what they have been able to do so far but it's not good enough yet.

Taking a step back from all this and chilling for a moment.

Clearly there are delays with the Core Infamy board and related software.  Clearly Devialet could perhaps have done a better job with respect to communication.

Another thing that is clear to me is that there is demand amongst a proportion of users for Roon RAAT.  Looking at the words from Quentin Sannié it is crystal clear that they are working on AIR and Roon AIR for the new board.  So if you want Roon, it will be there.  This will be a kind of integrated Roon AIR V2, and you never know, it might be 100% stable and have improved sound quality.  This may appear to be ridiculously optimistic, certainly it is optimistic, but lets see, there is no point trying to predict it will be rubbish before anyone has tried it.  So what about Roon RAAT?  Again looking at the words from Quentin Sannié, but here reading 'between the lines', and also interpreting Danny Dulai's words on the Roon forum 'between the lines' at little, I think that actually a very clear picture emerges.  We know Roon and Devialet are working together as they have delivered Roon AIR, Roon themselves appear very keen to get RAAT into anything, and they are obviously keen for Devialet to become RAAT compatible.  Thinking all this through and looking carefully at what has been written, to me it looks clear.  Roon AIR integration continues with the new board, this looks like a priority in terms of the software delivery and debugging in the short term.  Roon RAAT is planned, Devialet and Roon are talking about this, but nobody wants to pre-announce this or speculate on a schedule.  I would say it is almost certain to happen, probably next year, but exact timing is anybody's guess.  I think this is the point, lets assume it is happening but all concerned are agreed not to pre-announce it, then no amount of posting on the various Devialet notice boards will change the current situation.  What would actually be needed would be for Devialet to change their policy on communication.

I am also of the opinion that a lot of stuff that has come from Devialet support recently has been total and utter rubbish.  In the past I have had many dealings with Devialet support, I too am slightly in love with Oceane, who must be just about the most charming woman in France, but I do have a fine collection of past responses from her that are bordering being totally and utterly ludicrous.  I think Devialet support are often under instruction as to what they can and cannot say, they try to be helpful, they succeed in being charming, but the ultimate result is misinformation to the point that it is genuinely comical.

But forgetting all this nonsense, looking at what is actually lurking there as information, you can get to some basic conclusions:

If you are a Roon RAAT fanatic, I would say all is good, it is coming, you just need to be calm and patient, because it is not coming anytime soon.  If you are a RAAT fanatic and very impatient, then there is no hope left in the world.  

There also seems to be one or two folk who don't care about Roon but are very keen on Qobuz, which is fair enough.  This one is also clear, Devialet have already announced that the board will have Qobuz support in due course.  Indeed, those wanting RAAT and those wanting Qobuz are in a similar position, much patience is needed, it's not going to happen in the next few weeks.

As for the other stuff, room correction and so on, I suspect this will happen too, but lets be honest, this one will be a long way back in the queue behind getting the basic streaming functions sorted.  it is what it is.

So this all looks very shambolic at the moment but I think it could all work out OK in the end.  I wonder how all this will look in a years time?

Meanwhile I think I will console myself and cheer myself up by playing a few tunes on my gramophone.....

(09-Nov-2017, 18:58)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]Oceane, who must be just about the most charming woman in France

I thought she lives in Hong Kong a really nice house 

She is extremely pleasant to deal with!!!