(03-May-2016, 21:51)bernardl Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure to get the negative comments about the event in Versailles.
Treating one's ecosystem well (in this case dealers) is something most companies think is very important. How they do it is impacted by the cultural background of the people working in the company. And... like it or not, Devialet is a French company that is part of a culture of which high end hospitality is a key component.
As far as I am concerned, I judge companies based on their products alone (and I continue to be delighted by my 250), but those who think that the "personality" of a company they buy from is relevant shouldn't expect Devialet to become something it is not, or to apologize for what it is.
Cheers,
Bernard
The most important, number one concern for any company should be it's customers. Also I put all the 'extravagance' on one side and the treatment of customers on the other. There's a stark contrast here IMO.
Another thing, you may have missed how Devialet has mistreated distributors/dealers in the past. (If we choose to believe the little one-sided information that 'leaked out')
But yes, my simple Dutch roots may also make me consider this all very much over the top.
(03-May-2016, 21:51)bernardl Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I am concerned, I judge companies based on their products alone (and I continue to be delighted by my 250), but those who think that the "personality" of a company they buy from is relevant shouldn't expect Devialet to become something it is not, or to apologize for what it is.
We are judging them on their product. AIR has been broken for 2 years, they don't care. Wining and dining their resellers and F1 sponsorships/partnerships seems to be their priority.
(03-May-2016, 22:21)Dr Tone Wrote: [ -> ] (03-May-2016, 21:51)bernardl Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I am concerned, I judge companies based on their products alone (and I continue to be delighted by my 250), but those who think that the "personality" of a company they buy from is relevant shouldn't expect Devialet to become something it is not, or to apologize for what it is.
We are judging them on their product. AIR has been broken for 2 years, they don't care. Wining and dining their resellers and F1 sponsorships/partnerships seems to be their priority.
I have spent a lifetime career in technical sales (non-audio). One thing I learned: the customer is king, and any company which forgets that is destined to fail. It is still early days for Devialet, but the writing is on the wall ...
To explain the condemnation:
If Devialet were working hard to fix the problems their customers have I would be less critical of them playing with sports cars, renting Versailles, and the rest. They're spending a ton of money on marketing, and marketing staff. We see no evidence of them spending such money on engineering or customer support. So we are waiting around for them to fulfill their promises to us as paying customers while watching them play with themselves. If they were meeting their lofty promises and wanted to trumpet their success at Versailles by inviting OdA customers and their top dealers to a celebration of great sound that's would be fine. However, while I think they make excellent stuff it doesn't live up to their claims, doesn't work reliably for many (not just AIR but Phantom, Dialog, Spark, etc.), and their technical support to dealers and their own first-level customer support is ridiculously delayed to nonexistent. So it sure seems that Devialet is short-staffing engineering and support at the expense of marketing. Then there's the dishonesty of their marketing...
Sigh. Luckily my D400 sound great and I love listening to them. I just wanted to help explain the reaction in this thread for those who don't understand. Back to the lovely music.
Wow,
If I were contemplating a purchase of a Devialet and was reading this thread for background, I' d have a hard time moving forward to the purchase. Is it really this bad?
My 400 is remarkable. Haven't even tried Air as wifi networks are notoriously unreliably. Now, wired ethernet would be cool but too lazy to push that one forward.
Best,
WDW
I fully agree that Devialet should have fixed Air a long time ago, but this is totally unrelated to the way they treat their dealers IMHO.
How much a company spends on marketing is one aspect of a business plan that cannot be judged meaningfully without knowing the full picture. Sorry but this should be obvious for anyone with basic knowledge of the way companies work.
Cheers,
Bernard
My objection does come from knowing the way companies work. I feel bad for the engineers tasked with implementing a marketing-driven feature set and timeline. I am leery of companies treating their dealers to fois gras and their engineers to overtime. Devialet makes excellent gear and I want them to focus on that. If they can do everything else too that's great, but they can't so the full picture is what some of us are objecting to here. I'd love Devialet to come out with a stunning new product, upgrade path, and improved support of their current products. If we had any information about the title of this thread ("New Product Launch", as a reminder) we'd be talking about what amazing engineering Devialet does and how awesome their products sound. Instead we have opulence, immoral food, and disappointment to discuss. That's Devialet's choice as they publicize their event not their new products.
This train has jumped the tracks in a big way. From 'new product' to AIR to farming production to Formula 1 and Parisienne product demonstrations. Holy crap-a-moley. We don't know what the announcement will be, but already Devialet is being kicked for anything they have done, or for any number of things some imagine they may or may do.
I accept that for some AIR has not delivered. But not for all, so the blanket statements about failure and customer support failings are failings of fact and reasoning. The cries of 'they didn't listen to me', or 'I'm having problems so everybody is having problems' just don't wash. And I'm also perfectly satisfied with the customer support I've received, and so are many others.
I have never diminished the problems that some users have with AIR or some other part of the product. But they are not universal problems: it fails on inductive reasoning; you can't extrapolate from the specific to the general and assume that your problem will be found everywhere. For the Nth time, I'll try and point your collective gaze to the Naim forum.... and I'll invite you to lather Naim with the same condemnation. Connectivity... UPnP apps.... dropouts.... 'no network found'.... 'no streamer found'..... Naim is a much bigger company and has been in business much longer than Devialet. Their list of peeved customers is substantial, even with a line of expensive products, serious research capacity and egotistical marketing and posturing. Even the lame but popular Sonos is not without issues. And I use a Sonos so I know how often it disappoints.
I'm happy that Devialet is sponsoring a Formula I team. I like it that they have not forgotten that show and presentation matter. It is excellent that dealers and distributors get an experience of Paris as well as my favourite audio product. I also know that death and dinner go hand in hand, so I'm not bothered by the menu. And I don't see how persons who have spent frickin' astounding amounts of money on audio equipment can criticize the spending choices of a small, innovative and young audio company.
I want them to keep developing and pushing new ideas. And most importantly, I still would not trade my D120 for any other box of tubes or transistors. Do I want them to put resources to fixing AIR? Yes, absolutely. But how on earth anyone can get on his (or her) high horse and assume they are not working on it is astounding. We have members here with a wide, wonderful range of experiences and backgrounds and yet, none of us is party to the corporate marketing or engineering strategy or resource allocation. Yet some assume they are doing nothing. What cheek, as the British might say.
Yes, some of their marketing is over the top, and much is lost in translation or at least comically distorted. Laugh and get over it. But scrutinize any number of ads for cars, or laundry detergent or toothpaste. Same story. Or try Donald Trump....
While some are throwing rosewater on the Kii or whatever, I'd say that Devialet has inspired quite a few imitators. And brought serious credibility back to the all-in-one integrated concept.
I don't want to make enemies of the friends I have on this forum. I'm not quoting anyone, or pointing my keyboard in any personal direction. I have spent considerable time revising this post so as to express myself without giving unusual offence. Likely, I've failed, and not for the first time. Oh well.
Having been CEO in a company representing manufacturers as a dealer, and managed a sales network on my own, I am not obfuscated by the way Devialet has treated its dealers. This is business and dealers' motivation ; nothing else.
What is more of a concern IMHO is :
- the lack of judgement of the guy who posted all the details in a context of exacerbated frustration of the Devialet's customers community ; he could only raise jealousy, angry comments from English animal lovers about this rude French menu, aso... and that's what sadly happened
- the lack of apparent commitment of Devialet on the 'Expert' range of products. Devialet is, consciously or conscienceless, raising the perspective that the 'Expert' range has never been anything else than a technological window dressing, aimed at non-users to dream about, and don't care so much about actual users, who we are
Everybody must know, because it has been said publicly, that Devialet is not a sponsor of a Formula 1 team. They have had their name on the Renault F1 at no cost at all. And the reason for this will probably appear in the near futur.