(26-Jun-2016, 08:17)MightyMart Wrote: [ -> ]The software upgrades from Devialet are a very positive thing indeed. The coming launch of the hardware upgrade, though optional, does however have a direct and negative impact on the second hand value of the equipment itself. Just look at the fate of the D-Premier!
If I don't upgrade my D400 it will lose a big chunk of that important second hand value, and this is a 2-3 year old amp we're talking about that wasn't exactly cheap to start with. Devialet has started to make me feel I lose money by being an owner, and that's not very positive.
Devialet has a way of doing things like these the wrong way if you ask me. They shouldn't spread rumors and/or be secretive, that only tend to make people nervous. Instead they should let us know a) there will be an upgrade available at b) a specific date and c) a specific cost. Letting owners know that there is something big on the way but not when or how much it costs is just very counterproductive.
It was the same thing with the quirky and secretive launch of the Phantom. As I recall, that marketing campaign made a lot of us Expert owners very nervous and insecure.
But hey, let us all hope for the hardware upgrade to be cheaper than expected...
Normally a vendor just creates a new product line. In this case the old one loses second hand value. What devialet does is quiet unique. You have the option to upgrade for - always - less than buying a complete new product. In both cases the second hand values decreases but the upgrade option is far best so I do not understand this discussion.
Oh and isn't the teasing Devialet does part of the experience in getting more and more excited?
Well with these prices from new orginal Devialet to 250 is already a cost 15 000 gbp, and the hole setting with the expensive price tag from the beginning was free upgrade annonsed by Devialet
MightyMart I had the same feeling with Akurate DS. I spent 5200 euros then one year later the new board was released and the DS/1 with digital inputs/outputs came out. I spent 1600 euros to change the board for a quite good improvement but not spectacular.
I wonder now how much will be the cost for 2 D200. For sure I will need some serious tests and positive feedbacks to pay again for an upgrade.
I remember my (entry level) dCS Debussy DAC had a hardware upgrade available from 24/96 to 24/192 plus DSD around 2 years after the product launch. The price was only around US$1-200, presumably only covering the parts cost. The unit was bought from the UK and the dealer happened to have a business trip to Hong Kong, he kindly offered to come on site to installed the board for me with no extra charges.
That upgrade could have made me a lifetime dCS owner had I been able to afford their higher end gears.
(26-Jun-2016, 17:59)Petter Wrote: [ -> ]Well with these prices from new orginal Devialet to 250 is already a cost 15 000 gbp, and the hole setting with the expensive price tag from the beginning was free upgrade annonsed by Devialet
Devialet commited to free software upgrades. Which they provide. Uou certainly did not expect that they change the hardware for free, did you?
No one expect hardware upgrades to be completely free but constantly launching new products and now an expansiva hardware upgrade is quite detrimental to second hand prices. Plus the upgrades are only available in a limited time, so if you don't upgrade your amp will lose even more of its value. Of course there will be some reaction among long time owners to that.
It seems like this upgrade is going to be more expensive then most of us expected. To upgrade from a D120 to a D200 Pro will cost around 3400 EUR (32 500 SEK here in Sweden). My guess is that an upgrade from D200 to a Pro will be around 2000-2500 EUR. It's pretty serious money if you like me have a D400.
Plus some of us feel we paid for a product that was supposed to have working AIR (AIR cost more), Devialet has failed to fix that since the launch and now we have to actually pay AGAIN for this to finally (or hopefully maybe...) be fixed.
The only cost the upgrade should be compared with is the cost diffrerence with the model one is upgrading to. So until we know the prices of the models and the prices of the upgrade, any discussion about second hand models loss of value seems purely speculative.
Regarding AIR, a software upgrade will probably fix it one day. Until then, it is a sad situation when it does not work.
I would not say that they are 'constantly launching new products'; they are a new company and it seems to me that they have made each product launch interesting and important; I can't comment on the O'dA but some D800 owners seem to think it a worthwhile expenditure. That upgrade required the purchase of an entirely new product. Devialet started with the D Premier, then the expert series (all at one time) and then the Phantom. Now there is a new Phantom and an opportunity for current Expert owners to upgrade.
Upgrade or not, it is a choice. Every company releases new products and older equipment is always worth less than you paid for it new. If the upgrade is too expensive to any person, then skip it and stop worrying. The opportunity to upgrade is the best any company can do; but now you have the chance to have a two-year old product made new and current, and that is a a rare thing.
I don't know what the upgrade will cost for any particular model, and I don't have any expectations about that cost. But research and development and testing cost money, and the manufacturing costs for a potentially small production run, and the labour to perform the upgrade is inevitably going to be more than doing a mass-production run of an assembly line product.
The upgrade will not be cheap, just got tip from my local vendor the upgrade cost for a non-recent LE400 will be around $6,800 USD, including shipping back and forth to chez devialet. Will take about 1 month.
Recent purchase will be cheaper, probably around 30-40% cheaper.
The whole guts of the old units will be changed apparently, leaving only the old cases.
No definite date for availability yet.