27-Jul-2016, 05:49
(26-Jul-2016, 23:40)IanG-UK Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve read most, if not all, the posts on this thread, most recently the ones about pricing, which are generally critical of Devialet.Wise..agree,
So I accept that this post, which defends Devialet, will be subject to criticism from many! But I do think that they have an impossible task in trying to get a set of pricings which satisfy the majority, when they have a product range which allows upgrades (stereo to dual mono) and provides for non-obsolescence - across a range of fluctuating currencies and differing purchase tax rates - with different distributor and dealership arrangements and with the non-obsolescence undertaking being a direct service from Devialet and not one necessarily involving the same dealer and/or distributor margins.
I would say that I infrequently defend Devialet, having criticised them regularly for customer service, for communication and for AIR failures. But I commend them for innovation, design, flexibility, non-obsolescence, and employing some people like Mathieu Pernot in France and Joachim and Antoine (and previously Yann) in the UK who always try to be helpful from what I suspect has been misjudged leadership in the past - something which looks to have a chance of improving following Monsieur Sannie’s letter. I think we often forget that on DC.
Anyway, the pricing, where I have rounded for ease of understanding and where m) means master and c) means companion and P means Pro:
Old pre-Pro UK prices are (Stoneaudio website):
120 £4k
200m £5.5k
250m £10k
200c £4.5k
250c £8k
400 £10k
800 £18k
New Pro UK prices are (Fanthorpes website):
130P £5k
220Pm £7k
250Pm £12.5k
220Pc £6k
250Pc £11.5k
440P £12k
1000P £23k
So the average percentage increase is what would generally be regarded as a substantial 29% for a change from a Mk 1 to a Mk 2 model. However, it’s pretty safe to say that none of us has yet heard an old to new comparison, side by side, at home; very few of us have heard a 1000 Pro, but only in a shop (as was demonstrated by Oxford Audio earlier this month); but a few of us have experienced the closest thing to a Pro, namely the OdA, for up to six months, having previously owned an 800.
Judgement of quality improvements are personal and subjective, but I can without doubt say that, in my opinion, they are significant, in terms of perception of power, retrieval of detail, and (most significantly) recreation of the acoustic space - and these improvements still surprise me, six months on from taking delivery of my OdA. This is not a “standard” Mk 1 to Mk 2 change, in my view.
If the improvements in the four Pro variants (130P, 220P, 250P, 440P) give a similarly proportionate uplift in quality, owners are in for a treat, in my opinion. And it may be that the 800 to 1000P change surpasses that currently delivered by the 800 to OdA change.
When one looks at the upgrade offers, there are three stereo ones and two dual mono ones.
The upgrades covering120 to 220Pm, the 200m to 220Pm and the 250m to 250Pm all cost £3k, simply because they all involve just about the same replacement parts. To be pedantic, it is possible that the 200 and 250 keep their existing phono/pre-out stages whereas the 120 gets a new phono/pre-out stage; and it seems that the 250 gets a new bottom plate in solid copper. But these are pretty modest differences in the overall scheme of things.
The upgrades covering 400 to 440P costs £4.5k and 800 to 1000P costs £5k. So that is £1.5k for the 220Pc and £2k for the 250Pc - because there will be savings on the streaming board and on the testing process, but probably a bit more cost on the 250Pc because I guess it has a more comprehensive power supply and thermal management components, given that the 440P simply doubles the 220P output whereas the 1000P quadruples the 250P output.
If one assumes that a pre-Pro unit has been owned typically for 1.5 years (the units have generally been around for 3 years) and that depreciation is 25% in the first year and 10% in the following six months (and this is probably on the low side for conventional high end hifi gear), then the normal approach of old sale and new purchase would incur these costs:
120 to 220Pm £4.3k
200m to 220Pm £3.3k
250m to 250Pm £5.75k
400 to 440P £5.25k
800 to 1000P £10.85k
Whereas one can get to the same ownership level through a £3k cost for the first three upgrades, a £4.5k cost for the second upgrade and a £5k cost for the third upgrade. All cheaper than the sale and purchase route, though not linearly.
Given that the Pro upgrade program will have overall sales and profits targets with uncertainly/variability as to volume levels absolutely, by currency, by transit cost and by some modest margin allowances for dealers and distributors who are otherwise being denied sales, this is an impossible equation to balance “fairly” particularly when the stereo improvements involve just about the same new hardware.
It is also the case that the 250 and 800/100 pricing carry the history of a relatively high price for the D-Premier and the dual D-Premier, in an era when Devialet had to amortise R&D costs over a smaller sales volume. Hence the upgrade savings for the 250m to the 250Pm and for the 800 to the 1000P are disproportionately high compared with the others.
So, taking what I know into account, I think Devialet has probably done a fair job. There are three choices: one can do a sale and purchase, or an upgrade, or do nothing. After all, the pre-Pro models have not suddenly got worse - they are the same as they were six months ago.
Those of us who chose the 800 to OdA route have paid the most, absolutely and probably proportionately too. Maybe a bad choice, but my choice, so given that Devialet is now taking us to the 1000P level for free, we have little to grumble about.
Best
Wdw
