Devialet Chat

(01-Jul-2016, 09:26)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]I have to agree with @Borgen.  If somehow (in a parallel universe perhaps) we had Devialet quality hardware, combined with stable and highly optimised software, the overall product would be outstanding.  That is the problem with the EVO platform, it is capable of delivering so much more, as things stand it's underutilised, very many missed opportunities.  In the interest of balance, I presume that if Devialet employed a huge, highly competent software team, the costs would be huge.  This would inevitably mean more expensive products.  (I believe software engineers can command reasonably favourable salaries)   Although I do wonder what would happen if they opened the EVO platform to the world and allowed third party development.  Might be chaos, might lead to some brilliant developments?

As for the upgrade dilemma, retained values etc.  The first point is the upgrades are optional.  If you don't take it, your amp will sound the same for zero charge.

Then think of cars.  A couple of years before I bought my first Devialet, I bought a car.  Since then, the manufacturer has brought out a new model of the car, it's higher spec, looks a bit nicer, and so on.  No upgrade of my car has been offered!  The car has also lost a LOT of it's value.

Back in the very late 90's / early 2000's I performed a major upgrade of my hifi.  Today, I still have the amplifiers I bought then, Arcam Alpha 10/10P, they are still in use in a surround sound system, as are the speakers I bought then.  The CD player I bought in I think 2000, is still in use in my main system.  I only play CD's occasionally, but my trusty old CD player is still in use, connected to a Devialet.  I bought a car in the late 90's too, I do not own it now, it still exists, and it's a horrible pile of junk!  I think a lot of this is psychological.  If you'd bought one of the first D-premiers, it would still be a fine product now, OK not the latest thing, but a damn good amp nevertheless.  There are far worst ways of wasting money than buying Devialet products.

I agree Confused. 

I think where Devialet have somewhat surprised me (and many others) is that, instead of going for a better streaming experience (Fix AIR / Introduce Roon / Dare I say, make the Dialog work on the Expert range?) they have worked on improving sound quality. And very few people on this forum have ever complained about SQ. My best guess is that they figured out they can't fix AIR so the only way to dig themselves out of this hole is to introduce better SQ with an upgrade that will then also improve the streaming side. More money in the bank and AIR issues forgotten forever 

(01-Jul-2016, 09:48)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ]My best guess is that they figured out they can't fix AIR so the only way to dig themselves out of this hole is to introduce better SQ with an upgrade that will then also improve the streaming side. More money in the bank and AIR issues forgotten forever 

I think you are the first who explained the devialet-way of thinking

AIR issues forgotten forever??

No way! Not just like that. Not if I have to fork out 1k+ cash, that's for sure.
Or any cash at all that is.

(01-Jul-2016, 10:03)Cylob Wrote: [ -> ]AIR issues forgotten forever??

No way! Not just like that. Not if I have to fork out 1k+ cash, that's for sure.
Or any cash at all that is.

+1 - totally agree. 

Of course, most likely the rumoured new streamer option will *only* be available for upgraded systems....

(01-Jul-2016, 09:48)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ]My best guess is that they figured out they can't fix AIR so the only way to dig themselves out of this hole is to introduce better SQ with an upgrade that will then also improve the streaming side. More money in the bank and AIR issues forgotten forever 

Not sure of that.
AFAIC, AIR has been working great since I made the appropriate efforts to make Beta 3.0 work.
I have been fighting a lot to make it work but now it's working in a very reliable manner and with the best SQ I could ever get from my D900.
What has been missing IMHO is a clear roadmap from Devialet for installing and operating AIR. But if you take all the necessary steps. ie :
- dedicate an Airport (Express is working well) which costs less than 100 EUR
- place the Airport right beneath the network board of the Devialet so that the WiFi signal is > -30db
- use exclusively fixed IP addresses (DHCP forbidden)
- dedicate the 2.4 GHz channel to the Devialet
- connect the Airport to you home router through RJ-45
- make sure all interference generating HW (Mac, disks, NAS, router, aso) are far enough (>3m) from the Devialet/Airport
- make sure that the load of the streaming Mac is not excessive
You should have great results.
Just my 2c, but this POW is shared by the French community of Devialet owners.

So the upgrade is to bring to everyone the SQ of the D900, which is, IMHO, a fantastic opportunity.

[EDIT] The new streamer seems to necessitate the change of the 'gun board' named from the shape of this PC board, and which hosts the operating system of the Devialet. This is the reason why only upgraded machines will be able to support it. Nothing to do with SQ.

IMHO AIR should work with any bog standard network without having to tweak anything, just like any other networked product.

(01-Jul-2016, 12:38)SwissBear Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-Jul-2016, 09:48)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ]My best guess is that they figured out they can't fix AIR so the only way to dig themselves out of this hole is to introduce better SQ with an upgrade that will then also improve the streaming side. More money in the bank and AIR issues forgotten forever 

Not sure of that.
AFAIC, AIR has been working great since I made the appropriate efforts to make Beta 3.0 work.
I have been fighting a lot to make it work but now it's working in a very reliable manner and with the best SQ I could ever get from my D900.
What has been missing IMHO is a clear roadmap from Devialet for installing and operating AIR. But if you take all the necessary steps. ie :
- dedicate an Airport (Express is working well) which costs less than 100 EUR
- place the Airport right beneath the network board of the Devialet so that the WiFi signal is > -30db
- use exclusively fixed IP addresses (DHCP forbidden)
- dedicate the 2.4 GHz channel to the Devialet
- connect the Airport to you home router through RJ-45
- make sure all interference generating HW (Mac, disks, NAS, router, aso) are far enough (>3m) from the Devialet/Airport
- make sure that the load of the streaming Mac is not excessive
You should have great results.
Just my 2c, but this POW is shared by the French community of Devialet owners.

So the upgrade is to bring to everyone the SQ of the D900, which is, IMHO, a fantastic opportunity.

[EDIT] The new streamer seems to necessitate the change of the 'gun board' named from the shape of this PC board, and which hosts the operating system of the Devialet. This is the reason why only upgraded machines will be able to support it. Nothing to do with SQ.

I understand you have AIR working properly Swissbear. As a matter of fact, mine works too and I have 2 x 20m cheap Cat5 cable on a simple router. Still, the are too many people who are struggling. Given that AIR v1 was working fine with Mac only, I think if they would have left it as it was they would have saved themselves a lot of hassle.

What happens, IMO, is that Devialet has attempted to use a very standard computer (Mac or Win) to operate a process which requires close to real-time capabilities. And this is very difficult to do.

Even without AIR, Audirvana is obliged to operate some OS optimization in order to get high quality sound reproduction and avoid clicks/drops.

Most of the renderers which are used in the industry are completely specialized and dedicated (integrated renderer from darTZeel LHC-208 or cuBox of Totaldac and µ-rendu : all have dedicated processors, operated by a very light OS (subset of Linux)).

The failure of Devialet has probably been not to propose a small dedicated box to achieve this mission which is critical. And this is what they are going to do in a future version of their OS.

Linn is in upgrade-mood also and shows how a launch can be communicated including all conditions and prices:
http://www.linn.co.uk/offers?utm_source=...-317931593

All good points, chaps. Borgen's points a & b are a good, simple breakdown of product development options. I do think, however, that they have delivered on b in terms of software upgrades, and as Pim says, they have improved SQ with few complaints from owners here (big talk from the guy on FW 7.1.1, I admit).

I don't get into the AIR debate much as I don't use it, though whenever I've tried it, it has worked for me. And as always, my experience with UPnP streaming on my Naim gear was so continuously exasperating that my Devialet streaming time has been a huge relief.

I am interested to see the details of the upgrades as well as any other new product they have in the pipe. I'd love to ditch the sonos part of my system so if there is a new streaming facility that would let me add a wide range of services I'd be very pleased.